Playing a Song You Have Never Heard

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 16 Apr 2002 10:38 am

To me, this is one of my greatest challenges.
To attempt to take a lead part on a song I have never before heard or played. All I can do is try to quickly grasp a hook line or melody line and try to follow the bass.
Anybody care to expand on this? Tell us your approach. I'm quite sure I'm not alone on this. This is assuming there are no charts or sheet music. This just may be the one thing that separates the "men" from the "boys".

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 16 Apr 2002 10:45 am

I force myself to memorize the progression and timing of the chord changes of the verse, so I can at least play licks in the right chords when I play the ride.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 16 Apr 2002 10:52 am

If you have a good bassplayer, he will always give the start from a new change in chords. As most songs are in I IV V approaches, sometimes II and VI , it'sup to your experience and musical knowledge how you keep up with it and do a creative thing .
Good luck!
JJ

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 16 Apr 2002 11:13 am

Kinda makes you appreciate what Paul Franklin does several times every day. I realize that there are charts and run-throughs but having to create something on the spot is very unnerving. When you have to play something the first time through it's more a matter of memory + telepathy, but what you're playing on the bandstand is probably not being recorded for wide distribution.

I agree with Jim. Listen carefully. Get the chords for the intro and get through that (if you drew the short straw and have to play the intro), then DON'T PLAY UNTIL YOU HAVE TO. Write a chart in your head. If you get the chords right, finding the melody is easier.

Johan brings up a good point -- IF the bass player knows the song. We've all had the next Randy Travis come up and sing a song that only one or two band members have ever even HEARD before. That is a challenge unto itself.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

B Bailey Brown · Post by **B Bailey Brown** » 16 Apr 2002 11:13 am

Bob,

That is exactly the way I have faced that situation for years. Try and figure out the changes as fast as you can, and follow the Bass player. The only other thing I would add is that if there is a particular change you just can’t get quickly, just listen for that change to come around again…and then don’t play anything! It happens to me usually when there is some off the wall minor chord that I hear as something else. You would be surprised at how many other players never notice when you “disappear” for a few seconds, but almost any player, or singer, will notice a wrong change.

Of course the whole thing falls apart is the Bass player doesn’t know what he is doing!

I have played songs that I knew well, with a Bass player that didn’t have a clue. Invariably, I will follow him right into a change that I know is not correct! Oh well, no system is perfect.

B. Bailey Brown

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 16 Apr 2002 11:28 am

I too follow the bass player.

When I'm really in trouble, I put an E-bow on a string and just move the bar around till I hit a spot that sounds right. People inevitably think it's wonderful and that I'm some sort of genius for creating such a new and cool sound. Little do they know I'm desperately trying to not make a total fool of myself and have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. [This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 16 April 2002 at 09:00 PM.]

randy · Post by **randy** » 16 Apr 2002 12:13 pm

So that's what the ebow is for. I've been trying to come up with something for years that would be passable on the bandstand. You're my hero Mike. Now if I could just find the darn thing.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 16 Apr 2002 12:16 pm

All of the above. Also during that chord change you can't find, just slide into a single compatible note or two. Really fake it with a few single notes before sliding into it, then a few single notes coming out and presto, a creative fake!

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 16 Apr 2002 2:13 pm

Keep your ears and eyes open,
and remember;
they can't hit a moving target!
Melody in harmony will tell
everyone else where you are.
Also,smile and people will
forgive you if you make a mistake.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 16 Apr 2002 6:54 pm

Oh. Mike said E-bow. At first I thought he said Elbow!

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Lee, from South Texas

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 16 Apr 2002 8:27 pm

A good way to prepare and progress your chances of tackleing this challenge is to: Everytime you listen to a song wheather on radio or your CD's and tapes or out listening to a band or whatever; make yourself call out chords to yourself as the songs goes along. Practice this hearing technique; so that you are able to hear chords without having to search them out constantly on your steel. Then you can hear the new chord quickly and already know where it is on your steel in several positions.....then you can start hearing the melody line withing the chord changes.....then you can start using your licks and passing notes/scales....to create something very nice for a song you have "Never" played or heard.
This is why a player is able to play a song he has never heard or played and it sounds like he has played it a bazzilion times.
Always practice Hearing and seeing it layed out on your steel; even if your not around your steel.
Ricky

Arty Passes · Post by **Arty Passes** » 16 Apr 2002 8:38 pm

Definitely follow the bass player and try not to guess where it's going, unless it's real obvious. We can get away with being a nanosecond behind the change and then volume pedal up or slide to the right chord, like you meant to do that. (and if you play a wrong chord, play it several times like you meant to do that, and explain by saying you were playing jazz.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 16 Apr 2002 8:59 pm

Ricky is the man!.....al

Kenny Forbess · Post by **Kenny Forbess** » 16 Apr 2002 9:07 pm

Ricky, I wish I'd said that.
That's exactly what I do.

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Ilove my Bolt-on !
kp

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 16 Apr 2002 10:10 pm

We have a surprise guest once in a while and it seems they always come over to me to tell me how the song goes. I always say, "tell the bass player". I also play more simple fills, one string instead of two. If the song goes to a surprise minor, that one string works fine, lots of times. I usually have the chorus, so by the second time through I'm usually good to go. Except, like last Friday, while doing the turnaround, they say "go up". I didn't know whether it was 1/2 or 1 step. So, I lost my concentration and messed up the end of the interlude.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 17 Apr 2002 12:11 am

It's really true that the bass player can lead the whole band into musical heaven or quicksand. As a gigging bass player myself, I early on had to learn the art of faking it...or better yet, creating on the spot.

Steel is easy compared to doing it on the bass thats for sure. On steel you can always lay out in moments of clulessness. On bass it's VERY important not to lose the feel by dropping beats. Over the years I've learned a couple tricks from faking it on bass that tie in to my "off the cuff" steel playing. Telepathy does help.

Learn to be somewhat ambiguous in your choice of ideas when youre unsure of the progression. Careful of playing things that have a tendency to have leading tones going to typical places. Watch out for your majors, minors & 7th's etc...10 zillion pentatonic playing guitar players can't be all wrong.
Learn to play "ghost notes" (i.e. muted rythmic parts of phrases) Then there's also the psycological trick of "appearing" like youre truly confident. I'm sure all you pro's have used that one occationally.

But like everybody's already said...keep your ears open!

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 17 Apr 2002 12:44 am

Bob, There have been many times that I have played songs either on stage or in the studio that I have never heard before. But I can't think of an instance right now where I didn't have an opportunity to at least ask one of the other band members who knew the song, what the chord changes are, feel of the song, any weird changes, etc. This can take less than 30 seconds. If the rare exception occurs and there aren't those few seconds to learn the chords, then I do what others have said, and listen closely for clues from the other players and play sparsely until having a good grip on the tune. Sometimes the guitar player has the ability to give you number signals with his hand to cue you for up-coming changes. The other main things I will pay close attention to is the phrasing, attitude and melodies sung by the lead singer. If I get a turn to take a solo, I will do my best to try to copy what I remembered from the singer. Even if I don't get the melodies exact, I will (hopefully) be in key, and will probably do a pretty good job of capturing the right phrasing and attitude. That approach usually works pretty well for me. --Marc

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 17 Apr 2002 4:09 am

first: Jim is right.
second: I have never been able to understand chords-- i.e., when someone says, "It goes like this" and strums a bunch of chords. I MUST hear a melody.
And I can't do it, without being AT the intrument-- it only stays in my head when I'm actually playing-- if I'm thinking, it doesn't hold.
I've done really well playing with folks who zing new things at me--
I played for a while with a woman singer named Rosalie Sorrells-- sometimes just her and me, sometimes a bass player too. I always sat to her right, so could "read" her chords on the guitar-- I could usually anticipate where she was going.
I could usually do a solo after hearing the melody through once.
One time was super special-- we were doing a two gig night at a club in NYC and she got up, introduced me, and said, "well, this is going to be a big surprise, but I'm going to do two sets of stuff Winnie has never heard before"-- and she did. Reallky kept me on my toes!

Winnie

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 17 Apr 2002 4:45 am

Scales are the answer to a whole lot of situations that come up! On one gig the bandleader got one of his friends from out of town to sit in and he wanted to do "Moondance" I'd never played it before and the guitar player hadn't but the bassman knew the song so we did it. I just sort of floated around the scale notes hitting an occasional double stop (fiddle term) here and there. When the break came I just played some scale stuff and when the song was over the guitar player said "Man that was great, I thought you'd never played that songt"...You can fake yourself out of a lot of tough situations by scale work. On another note about bass guitar! My girlfriend is the female vocalist for a band (The Redcoats) who play mostly old standards and some light jazz stuff. They were looking for a bass player one time and I went to a rehearsal with her as I had a bass so she asked me to try out. About 95% of the songs I knew the melody but didn't know the chords. I sort of noodled around the melody line and they thought I actually knew the songs and offered me the gig! I've been doing their gigs on a semi-regular basis ever since. If I had to play the chords to those songs I'd be lost but knowing the melody I could fake a bass part.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Apr 2002 7:52 am

My dear friend Bob Farlow asks probably the most poignant question ever asked on this forum.

It is right here where I expect the line is drawn between the great and the wannabe.

To be able to play a song one has never played (or heard), on the spot; or better yet play the melody on the spot is a talent many lack. I head this list. I could never do it. Ever! Tried all my life. Its not in me.

Yet for a select few, this appears to come easily. I suspect it is a God given talent.

Also, to be able to listen to a song and know what a given chord is during any segment of that song, blows my mind. I know there are those blessed with this talent, but it seems almost impossible to me.

One example I know of is the fabulous fiddle player--Jenee' Keener. She could NOT have learned in her young life ALL she knows.

I imagine that this ability can be learned to some degree. But I will always believe most of it comes from having it at birth.

God bless those who have it and those who would like to have it.

carl

Barbara Hennerman · Post by **Barbara Hennerman** » 17 Apr 2002 8:20 am

I'm really lucky! I married the bass player. He's a very strong bass man and very easy to follow. I've always depended heavily on him to lead me through the tough ones. Also, the bands I've worked with, have always been good about letting me know about wierdo chords.

Anyway, good luck.

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 17 Apr 2002 8:27 am

God bless Carl Dixon. Now, if only I could be "born again". Where are the heavyweights when we need them?

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 17 Apr 2002 5:02 pm

I am kinda in a spot like Jerry said, being taught by an Ol' friend of his (who's older??). Scales can get you out of a lot a touble, same as a bass player can get you in to or outta trouble. There is a lot of good stuff in this thread, as an ex-guitar player, I try and sit where I can see what he is doing chord wise, for me, that and a half an understanding of scales can do it for me. HI Jerry!!!

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 17 Apr 2002 9:20 pm

I said single string, and I guess I meant scales. Bob F., I can help you!

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 17 Apr 2002 9:22 pm

Reggie, I just sat here and saw that little video you sent me, BTW, can you help me!!!??!