Cassettes vs. CDs

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 4 Feb 2002 10:27 pm

Why are so many of the older (and sometimes greatest) steel albums only available on cassette? An example would be the Chalker set that Tom Bradshaw has. Are CDs cost prohibitive? Personally, I prefer CDs and hesitate to buy cassettes. Just curious.
Dave

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Feb 2002 6:46 am

Compared to just about any other market (even bluegrass or folk), steel guitar instrumentals are one of the smallest markets out there. If you duplicate 10,000 cassette copies of your album and sell half of them, you must be Buddy Emmons.

But what do you do with the other half when most of the buyers switch to CD's? You probably try to sell the cassettes you've already paid for. Re-releasing on CD will increase the expenses and probably not substantially increase the profit.

In addition, some of the original recordings may not be available, with studio closings and other people owning the rights to YOUR album. (Lloyd Green mentioned in his interview re: Chart Records that this is the case with some of his releases)

We should be thankful for the ones we do have. Many ARE available on CD and there's new stuff coming out all the time. We may be a small audience, but we do have a pretty rich recorded heritage to enjoy. You may just have to enjoy some of it on a turntable or cassette player.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 5 Feb 2002 8:59 am

Larry, I think you're quite correct but, like Dave, I hesitate to buy cassettes. I, for some reason, find them inconvenient to store, and ALWAYS lose the printed inserts; in addition, the variation in pitch with different casstte-decks is frustrating. They're old technology, of course, and we've all been spoiled by the exotic media available to us today....

I used to have a whole lot of steel albums on vynil when I first started grappling with PSG in the mid-seventies but, sadly, I've lost track of them in the course of moving to the USA. I've tried to replace the ones I really wanted - some because they're terrific records, and some for nostalgia - but have been frustrated when it came to the Curly Chalker and Lloyd Green releases, for example. "Suite Steel' is another one I'd like, and I 'posted' to this effect recently.

Larry's economic reasoning is sound, but I believe an existing market - albeit small - is stimulated when an old record is re-released on CD. With all due respect to Jimmie, I bet he hasn't sold many 12" copies of 'A Ton of Steel' in recent years, while the 'new' CD version has probably done comparatively well.

If there was a way to get Lloyd's, and Curly's, old catalogue out there I imagine we'd see a mini 'boom'! I should stress the word 'mini', I know, but the costly part of the process - the actual recording - is all 'water under the bridge'....

Incidentally, Larry, I am grateful for the vast amount of stuff that has actually made it on to CD - considering the microscopic share of the market that we represent, I should say we're fortunate - but there's no harm in giving a little encouragement to anyone who may be considering taking such a step!

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Roger Rettig
Emmons LGIII(S10/D10)& MCI D10

Michael Garnett · Post by **Michael Garnett** » 5 Feb 2002 12:15 pm

I think the "CD's cost too much" argument isn't accurate. I read somewhere that a CD costs anywhere between 5 and 10 cents to make professionally, including cover, nifty graphics on the front, and all. If you're going to turn around and sell that bad boy for 15 bucks, if you sell just 1 copy, you've paid for around ONE HUNDRED FIFTY copies. I can see how the CD people aren't hurting much for money. And, for a very small initial investment, granted you can sell off even HALF your copies, you can well afford to give the other half away.

Just my $0.enough to make a CD

Garnett

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 5 Feb 2002 1:35 pm

At the time a lot of this music was released, the cassette was the medium of choice. It was much cheaper than pressing vinyl LP's. CD's have only been inexpensive since a few years now. Plus, there are probably lots of master tapes that have disappeared or become unplayable over the years too. What I do now, when I buy a prerecorded cassette or LP, is to make my own CD.

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 5 Feb 2002 2:08 pm

Dave,

I doubt anyone is making cassettes rather than CDs today. The cost of making CDs is about the same as cassettes and, as you have noted, CDs are argueably a more user-friendly media--I love 'em. It's likely most of the steel guitar cassettes on the market today are old stock.

You might look into getting equipped to burn your own CDs from old LPs and cassettes. The hardware and software is getting more reasonable every day.

The cost of making CDs, cassettes, or any other recorded media is very much a function of quantity. Just get a price quote from any duplicator (like Oasis or Discmaker) and you'll see. I can't imagine they ever get as low as five or ten cents each, even in quantities of millions. And don't forget those people selling millions of units have a lot invested in slick production, artwork, advertising and promotion, management, etc., which can easily cost more than the physical CD itself.

Many recordings such as folk, bluegrass, jazz, etc. released on independent labels never pay for the cost of production. For example, I read an interview with veteran jazz pianist/singer who said he has made maybe a couple of dozen albums over the years and none of them ever paid for themselves. He's not alone, there are many artists in the same boat.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Feb 2002 2:25 pm

Makes no difference to me (hell, I still play 78's sometimes!). Tapes are nice because they fit in your shirt-pocket. CD's are nice because of the "instant access". My car and my home stereo play both, so I really can't complain. (I still think the commercial CD's are overpriced, though.)

Terry Miller · Post by **Terry Miller** » 5 Feb 2002 10:32 pm

Guys, I'm in the process of putting out a new CD of Jim Murphy and myself. The cost is a lot more than what one might think. The CD itself is not that much but the cost of the art work and insert and the CD add up fast. Most of us that are doing these projects can't aford to by in large quanities to get the cost down. This makes it cost prohibitive to do CD's in some cases. Terry

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 5 Feb 2002 10:40 pm

Get a stand alone CD burner, end of problem!! Convert your LP's and cassettes to CD, works for me!!

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 5 Feb 2002 11:50 pm

I agree with those that say to burn your own CD. I have a nice unit I like very much. It's a Teac RW-CD22. I bought it about 6 months ago from Costco for about $225 and have got much more than my money's worth out of it already. One neat benefit is that when I make the transfer from cassette tape to cd, I take that opportunity to adjust the pitch control from my Yamaha tape deck if needed, and this way I end up with only the songs I want and at the correct pitch. -- Marc

erik · Post by **erik** » 6 Feb 2002 1:15 am

Marc, what are you using to determine the correct pitch?

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 6 Feb 2002 7:25 am

"I read somewhere that a CD costs anywhere between 5 and 10 cents to make professionally, including cover, nifty graphics on the front, and all." I just had to reply to this. Michael, I just finished a vocal CD for a lady, my boss, and here's the breakdown of the project, in a very inexpensive studio(mine) and 500 copies.
Musicians and studio time=approx. $5000.
CD graphics and printing, color seperation and 500 copies=approx. $2000.
Total=$7000. approx. and a steel CD would cost about the same in my little project studio. Cost per CD=$14. Eva sells them for $15. each so she makes a big fat profit of $1. each.
These are in Canadian dollars, but I imagine it would be similar in the States. [This message was edited by John Lacey on 06 February 2002 at 07:27 AM.]

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 6 Feb 2002 7:57 am

I think that they think us country boys don't have CD players. So they put em on tape. But like Donny Hinson said, some of us have both, so we'll take them on either.

BC

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 6 Feb 2002 10:15 am

The point is not whether CDs or cassettes are more expensive to produce. I agree that the difference is probably negligible and submit that very few artists today would even consider relasing something new on cassette. Dave's question regarded older releases, so the overhead has already been spent. For many small projects I'm aware of, there is a rather large box of unopened product, often in the trunk of the artist's car, that will probably never be completely sold. To add production costs to remaster to CD, do the artwork, pay the licensing if you're using other people's songs, and duplicate the CDs, you're just gonna add another box of unopened product AND you're NEVER gonna sell those cassettes.

Just my opinion.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 06 February 2002 at 10:16 AM.]

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 6 Feb 2002 10:44 am

Moved from 'Steel Players' to 'Music'. Tough call...