E9 tuning on a 6 string pedal steel

[Charles Wiley]

Howdy,
I am trying to tune a spare guitar (set up as lap steel) to E9 to practice as I'm waiting for my 6 string pedal steel to arrive. I know the 6th (thickest) string is an E, but WHICH octave ? Is this the same E as the 6th string on a regular guitar?
Could someone possibly show me the strings as they correlate to the musical staff?
Like this image of the strings on a regular guitar...

GuitarTuning.jpg

Thanks!

[Dave Mudgett]

I'm not sure how you'd have an E9 tuning on a 6-string pedal steel without giving up too much of the pedal steel range. Standard 10-string E9 tuning starts from B above the lowest E on a guitar, and goes up as follows: B, D, E, F#, G#, B, E, G#, D#, F#. So the core of the tuning without the 'extra' stuff is a simple Emajor chord as follows: B, E, G#, B, E, G#, which gets the entire range of standard E9 without the extra notes, which are used for many things, but especially melodic expression.

It would be possible to start from the lowest E on guitar, and then do E, B, E, G#, B, E, which is the standard Vestapol Open E frequently used for slide guitar. Losing the high G# would take you away from a lot of the standard things a typical E9 player would do. But it would likely be better for blues and rock. Open E Vestapol is probably the dominant slide guitar open tuning - a lot of classic stuff has been done in that tuning.

So my question to you is - what do you want your 6-string pedal steel to do?

[Bobby D. Jones]

To get close to E9th tuning on a 6 string guitar, There is an E13 tuning. You may have heard it many times.
Don Helms who played with Hank Williams Sr. used a 6 string E13 tuning.
Bottom up E , G#, B, C#, E, G#. All these notes are found in the E9th 10 string tuning.

Good Luck in your steel guitar journey, Happy Steelin.

[Richard Sinkler]

I think trying to do E9 stuff you hear on records with a 6 string Pedal steel is a waste of money. What makes the E9 tuning so great is all the strings on a 10 string that you won't have. Those are all the "magic" strings that really make the E9 tuning so great. There is a reason the "standard" is a 10 string.

[Brooks Montgomery]

I think trying to do E9 stuff you hear on records with a 6 string Pedal steel is a waste of money. What makes the E9 tuning so great is all the strings on a 10 string that you won't have. Those are all the "magic" strings that really make the E9 tuning so great. There is a reason the "standard" is a 10 string.

Probably not a popular thing to say, but I feel the same way about 6-string lap steels with palm benders.

I was intrigued with palm benders and liked having the ability for some simple E9-like pedal sounds, but then I’d go back to my E9 Zum Encore Emmons setup with 10 strings & 3X5 and I’d just get floored with the “magic” as you call it—ALL those sounds and options and it’s just genius the mechanical music theory machine that is 10 string E9. Pound for pound, pound for sound, I’ll take the single neck 10-string.

[Steve Lipsey]

Why not just duplicate the tuning of the pedal steel you are waiting for? (by the way, there are two major different tunings that the 6-string makers use). That way you can start getting mentally comfortable with the tuning.
When the pedal steel arrives, you will just switch slides and slants for pedals and levers...

[Jack Hanson]

Probably not a popular thing to say, but I feel the same way about 6-string lap steels with palm benders.

My sentiments exactly.

[Bob Carlucci]

wow.. Has not one guy here ever listened to luke cyrus goetze on youtube??.. the sounds he gets, and the songs he plays on a 6 string deusy lap guitar with just 2 palm levers are every bit as intricate and achingly beautiful as any ""real"" E9 pedal steel, and Jack will have a lot more to work with than 2 palm levers... If he puts the time in and has the talent, there is a TON of music in a standard E tuning with a few pedals and levers. Lets not discourage him and say basically "it can't be done, its a waste of time, you NEED 10 strings".. No you DON'T need 10 strings.. Some of the greatest steel guitar music ever recorded was done with 6 or 8 strings... He's fine... Let him enjoy and get to know his 6 string pedal steel... Jack, I would like to know how many pedals/levers your new steel will have, IF they can be reconfigured or added to at a later date, and what changes you are thinking of starting off with.. Yes you are missing the high G#, and chromatic strings, but have a lot more range in the bass than a standard E9 pedal steel, so thats a plus.. You will have to learn more on your own than most of us, but that might be a benefit, not playing cliche' E9 licks that we have all been playing for the past 60 years or so... bob

[Brooks Montgomery]

Bob, yes, I apologize for raining on the OP’s post about practicing E9 on a 6-string spare guitar. My thread drift about palm levers was….straying from the original question.

Dave Mudgett posed the best question:
“So my question to you is - what do you want your 6-string pedal steel to do?”

The OP asked about E9. I assumed he was after E9 “sounds”.

Yes, there are some incredible things being done on six-string guitars with palm levers. And I assume 6-string pedals too.

This forum is very responsible for me even attempting to play E9 pedal steel. Some years ago I remember reuniting Tab Tabscott’s Carter double neck 10 x 10 to him through a bizarre coincidence (long story for another time).

Upon meeting him and handing off the guitar in trade for a Deneve dobro, I told him “I’ll stick with six strings and the dobro. It’s gotta be easier to fly the space shuttle than to play pedal steel guitar”.
He laughed and said, “it’s not that hard. It all starts to make sense once you get into it. And it’s so fun.”

How right he was. Reading all the shared knowledge on this forum gave me the (naive) confidence to purchase and start playing 10-string E9 pedal steel. The knowledge base on this forum is, as you know, simply incredible.

Prior to trying and buying my Zum Encore, I had purchased a Duesenberg with palm levers, I was looking for something lighter and I suppose easier, a short-cut, because I WAS after that E9 sound that I love.

I was disappointed, even after giving it several years, in a band. I just couldn’t get the sound or the licks that were in my head. And the duesy, in my opinion, has inherent flaws with the sliding capo and constant string breakage.

This forum has readers that, like me, will gather knowledge as they read all these threads. It has some of the world’s best players giving advice. On the other hand, there is advice from the likes of me, which should be taken with a grain of salt.

Having said that, in my experience, if you want to play lapsteel & dobro, play them, a lifetime of music and styles—but I personally didn’t like the levers. And if you want E9 sounding music, play a 10-string E9 pedal steel with at least 3x2.

And I look forward to hearing what the OP discovers on his new 6-string.

[Bob Carlucci]

I guess the point is this.. The instruments we play aren't limited.. Our talent limits what the instrument can do.. Lets put it this way.. The great steel guitarists of today and yesterday would not sound limited at all on a cheap 3 and 1 steel.. On the other hand I can sound very limited on a loaded 10 and 6 D12 custom built $10,000 steel. My talent dictates what I can or can't do, not the axe I'm playing.. I would give up the pedal steel forever to be able to play a 6 string lap guitar like that Goetze cat plays it....

[D Schubert]

Back to the original post, what is the tuning and pedal setup on the six-string guitar you've already ordered?

You won't waste your time trying multiple open tunings while you wait.

If you use a standard guitar set (two octaves, E to E) you can variously tune to E, Em, hi-bass A, etc

You could probably try Bobby Lee's Gmaj 9 tuning (GBDF#AD) which is like Luke Cyrus Goetze's tuning without the palm pedals.

LCG's latest videos show him using three levers, two to raise the 2nd and 3rd string for that classic E-to-A lick, and one to lower the 1st string half-a-step like a one-lever Sho-Bud.

You could also look at some closer intervals for your six string (with some attention to lighter string gages). An old favorite of mine was to toggle back and forth between BDEG#BE and BDEFBD (E7 and G6) with the same set of strings.

[Paul Strojan]

A six string E9 tuning would be E, B, G#, F#, E, D which can use a regular set of C6 strings. For a beginner, I would start with C6 lap steel as there is so much more learning material available for learning to play.

[D Schubert]

Back to the original post, what is the tuning and pedal setup on the six-string guitar you've already ordered?

[Charles Wiley]

Back to the original post, what is the tuning and pedal setup on the six-string guitar you've already ordered?

Howdy D Shubert!
I am still very alien to Forums and am not sure that I'm replying the correct way, but here goes....
I am purchasing a Hudson 6 String, 2 x 2 pedal steel guitar (Jimmie Hudson). The tuning is called E9 because it uses the middle 6 strings of a standard 10 String Pedal Steel tuned to E9, so here is how it is tuned: 1st string (thinnest) - G#; 2nd string - E; 3rd string - B; 4th string - G#l 5th string - F#; 6th string (thickest) - E. SO, basically, of the 10 strings on a 10 string Pedal steel in E9, the 6 string pedal steel used the middle 6 strings and doesn't have the lowest 2 strings, or highest 2 strings.

My whole purpose of this post was to learn to set up a standard guitar with this tuning so I can practice my "grips" for when the pedal steel arrives. I won't be able to practice any pedals or levers, but at least I can work on my 3 string grips and the arpeggios. That's all I need.

As far as the pedals and levers go, they are set to the basic Emmons setup.

Thanks! I hope this now makes sense.

[Dave Mudgett]

My whole purpose of this post was to learn to set up a standard guitar with this tuning so I can practice my "grips" for when the pedal steel arrives.

Then set the guitar to the same tuning as the steel you're getting. You should be able to use the gauges of those 6 strings in a standard E9 pedal steel set, unless there are issues with the guitar you're doing this to. For example, if you're using a cheap acoustic which won't handle the tension, then you should probably lighten the strings up. The standard E9 strings for (lo-hi) E, F#, G#, B, E, G# are on or close to 30w, 26w, 20p, 17p, 14p, 11p. If you want to consider different gauges, I suggest using a string tension calculator like this one - https://tension.stringjoy.com/

[Charles Wiley]

Thanks, Dave....

This is EXACTLY what I intended to do from the very start, but I couldn't find out, WHICH "E" on the music staff corresponds to the top (6th string) in my tuning..... I know it is an E, but E1, E2, E3, etc?? .... thus, my question: Is the E (which is my steel's top 6th string), the same as the lowest E on a standard EADGBE guitar?

[Jim Palenscar]

As Charles and Dave have posted the middle of the E9th tuning- strings 8-3 would be fine. I do that on Fender 400's and then put E-F on the 1st pedal, B-C# on the 2nd, G#-A on the 3rd, and E-D# on the 4th pedal- Basically giving one a 2/2 setup allowing for tons of std E9 playing.

[D Schubert]

Hey Charles, now we're answering the question that you actually asked.

Once you get the lignter-gage strings in place for the "middle six" tuning E F# G# B E G#

You can also raise two of those strings, G# to A, B to C#, and get a feel for chords and arpeggios with the pedals down. Once you're really playing the pedal guitar, you will spend a lot of time with those pedals down.

[Doug Taylor]

When I first got my pedal steel I used this video to tune by ear with and still use it when I change strings.

I would think you can use it to tune by ear to get it close with whatever note choices you use. Then you can fine tune with a tuner if you want.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOkOCAjW ... VmZiByYWR5

[Brian Hollands]

WHICH "E"
Is the E (which is my steel's top 6th string), the same as the lowest E on a standard EADGBE guitar?

Your low E will be one octave above the low E on a standard tuned guitar.
The second fret of the D string

[Charles Wiley]

Thank you, folks!....

To: D Shubert .... yes, we've finally answered my original question!

To: Brian .... That is EXACTLY what I needed to know. I suspected that because when I tuned to the E like 6th string on EADGBE, it was TOO loose and vibrated. Now, I'm probably going to have to get more strings as I'm breaking these with the higher tuning. I'll follow Dave Mudgett's advice on string gauge!

Appreciatively!!

[Dave Mudgett]

I know it is an E, but E1, E2, E3, etc?? .... thus, my question: Is the E (which is my steel's top 6th string), the same as the lowest E on a standard EADGBE guitar?

As I stated in my first reply, the lowest string in standard 10-string E9 is B above the lowest E on guitar. So clearly, the lowest E in your tuning is an octave above the lowest E on guitar. This is E3; the bottom E on standard guitar is E2, the bottom E on standard bass guitar is E1. That was the point I made about limited range of this type of tuning, which is just 9 diatonic intervals. The big things you get in exchange for that limited range is an A6 tuning with both the A and B pedals depressed, plus the 2 interval in the middle of the tuning for melodic runs.

A technical note - this tuning does not make an E9 chord because the b7 note D is missing, and even the 7 note D# for an Emaj9 chord is also missing. It is an Eadd2 or Esus2 chord.

[Charles Wiley]

Howdy Dave....

How do these String tensions look to you? Did I get the correct "octaves" of the strings?

StringTensions_E9.jpg