3 finger picks or 4. Jeff newman or Joe Wright

[Bill McCloskey]

So, I've been studying both Jeff Newman's speed picking course and Joe Wright's methods. These two methods seem diametrically opposed. Jeff Newman favors 3 picks, and really 2 picks in that he uses the Thumb and Middle fingers almost exclusively when speed picking. Joe Wright, who is certainly no slouch when it comes to speed picking, favors 4 finger picks, all on the strings and working independently. Jeff Newman teaches a right hand that is leans to the right with the edge of your palm on the strings and your forefinger knuckle up high, almost like a karate chop with palm blocking emphasized. Joe Wright seems to favor a flat hand approach and pick blocking emphasized.

So which should we practice and which do YOU practice.

[Doug Taylor]

I have been all around the block on this Bill. I started out watching Jeff’s videos and trying to palm block. During Covid I took Skype lessons with Joe and I practiced his 32 moves and pick blocking for months.

Last year I took some lessons from Elizabeth Day Lawerence and she encouraged me to go back to thumb middle and palm blocking so I practiced with Jeff Newmans Right Hand Alpha for months.

I am now faster and cleaner with 2 fingers than I was with 3. But I still pick block dome things!

In the end everyone’s hand is different and you have to do what works for you.

[Bill McCloskey]

Now that is interesting. Did you ever use four picks or did you stick with three? I'm fairly use to 4 picks after playing eharp, so I like that aspect of Joes methods.

[Doug Taylor]

Joe encouraged me to use 4 but I never could get comfortable with that extra pick.

[Bill McCloskey]

how was he as a one on one teacher?

[Doug Taylor]

I will send you a PM Bill

[Bill McCloskey]

I think key to Joe's method is that 4th pick for sure

[Ian Rae]

I have always used four picks, but I mostly use thumb and middle. I use a mixture of palm- and pick-blocking, depending on what I need to play. I'm not sure you have to keep to one school. I can't do all the things the great players do, but I copy what I can use.
Right Hand Alpha will give you basic clean technique. Joe Wright is more intellectual.

[Thornton Lewis]

I think it depends on what you want to do. If you want four clear, independent voices including any of the 12 strings, I think you want four picks.
If you want to palm block that fourth pick is useless and in the way.
Speed wise either one will get you there. The ring finger is never going to move as fast and accurately as the thumb and first two, but it makes pick blocking a lot more effective.
Four allows more pianistic playing which doesn't appeal to many steelers. It seems more interesting to you, so I would stay with four and concentrate on pick blocking.
You can always take one off and palm block if you have the time to practice both. You won't sound like the record if you don't. I don't care about that, but I don't gig in Texas either.

[Dave Grafe]

For the most part I am self-taught, and I have always used a thumb and three fingers, a holdover from guitar finger picking days. I like moving four-note grips and fat chords on the C6 neck, and it's handy to have an extra finger to grab the first string in a passing run.

I tend towards the Joe Wright approach, for speed on the E9 neck I do a lot of thumb-and-one (index finger) while on the C6 neck I tend to do a lot more three- and four-finger patterns at speed. On both necks I like the strength of thumb-and-two (middle finger) for two-note harmonies and sustained movement.

I mostly use pick blocking, but over the years I have incorporated the use of right pinky and heel/palm, left hand behind the bar with vertical bar movement, left thumb ahead of it, and probably a few other subconscious tricks.

[Fred Treece]

Jeff and Joe are not the only two choices.

I recently had a long and enlightening conversation about this with a good friend and highly talented steel player, who gave me a detailed explanation of the Paul Franklin “fingertip” blocking technique.
https://www.paulfranklinmethod.com/post ... g-blocking

Two fingerpicks + thumb pick, which I guess is what you would call 3 picks, are recommended because the bare 3rd finger provides a better blocking mechanism than wearing a pick on it does.

The right hand position is more similar to the Buddy/Jeff “pyramid” shape than to the Joe Wright “flat wrist”. Sometimes the same pick blocks after playing a string, sometimes it’s a different pick if you are shifting to different string sets, sometimes a fingernail blocks when dipping between strings, sometimes it’s the fleshy fingertip, sometimes it’s the side of the thumb, sometimes it’s an outstretched pinky, and sometimes it’s even the ghastly forbidden side of the palm.

Then there is the bar hand muting, which Dave Grafe has indicated in his post.

I don’t think any of the great players use a dogmatic blocking/muting approach in their actual playing. They use every technique and trick in their toolbox. When teaching, they are trying to instill one method or another for the sake of following a discipline, which is important for anyone trying to get results.

[Dave Grafe]

What Fred sedd

[Bill McCloskey]

Interestingly when I was a subscriber to Paul Franklin's lessons I asked him directly about using 4 picks over 3. His answer was: he would never tell anyone who is comfortable with 4 picks to use 3 and told me to keep using 4 picks. He cited people like Reece who of course used 4 picks and played amazing music.

[Dave Grafe]

Interestingly when I was a subscriber to Paul Franklin's lessons I asked him directly about using 4 picks over 3. His answer was: he would never tell anyone who is comfortable with 4 picks to use 3 and told me to keep using 4 picks. He cited people like Reece who of course used 4 picks and played amazing music.

And there you have it. I have often envied the blocking facility of the ring finger but not enough to lose the four-string grips and top string facility, so I just work harder on the other blocking options.

[Fred Treece]

Four string grips are still doable without a pick on the ring. Buddy did it. Good enough for me.

I agree with Paul Franklin (of course!) that this choice of 4 picks or 3 is highly personal. I was only pointing out that a pick on the ring would present a challenge to his fingertip blocking technique, which is somewhat different from Joe Wright’s blocking technique.

[David Wren]

I play a 12-string universal, but have always used 4 picks... even back in my D-10 days.

Many have posted it is an individual preference, and I couldn't agree more... but it sure does come in handy for big chords (when you don't want to strum)... but not being able to use the 3rd finger for blocking is definitely an issue.

If you do try the 3rd finger pick method.... force yourself to use that pick, in rotation with the others. I really miss using that finger now, if I ever only have 2 finger picks. Having the 3rd finger in use also comes in handy for fast licks, using strings 1 or 2 on the E9th.

Also, if this helps... I am definitely a self-taught player.... when I started, 16 1/2 rpms on a Tom Brumley lick was high tech when I was learning .

[Bob Hoffnar]

I was comfortable with 4 picks for a while than I switched to 3 picks and didn't miss the 4th pick.
I found that using the standard thumb and 2 fingerpick method opened up a couple ways to block and play harmonics. If I wanted to voice 4 note chords regularly I would switch back.
As far as I can tell both ways are fine.

[Douglas Schuch]

As noted, there are multiple approaches to this. I find Paul F's approach to pick blocking a good bit different than Joe W's. I found I was naturally using Joe's method before ever being exposed either his or Paul's instruction on the matter.

My answer to your primary question - both. I use 3 picks when I play in the E9 neck, but 4 when I play on the C6 neck. Mostly for the reasons Dave Graffe details - those nice 4-note grips on C6 that can be worked across the string groups.

I do not pick individual strings with my ring finger - I only use with the other 3 for the 4-note chords. This puzzled me for a while as, when i was much younger, I was rather adept at fingerpicking the acoustic guitar with thumb and 3 fingers. But recently it occurred to me why: and it's the pick blocking, which I didn't do on acoustic. The coordination and independent action of pedal steel if pickblocking is almost double of fingerpicking a guitar because you have pick a string with one finger, and then as the next string is picked, that (or another finger, depending on the grip) has to go back down simultaneously to block the string that is ringing. So my problem with my ring finger is not picking a string. It's blocking with the middle finger WHILE the ring finger picks, or blocking with the ring finger when the middle or another finger picks a string. It's just a much higher degree of separation between the middle and ring finger as they might be going in opposite directions.

I recently set myself a goal of learning the trick to it when my time permits. We will see if I ever get there.

Maybe someone will disagree with me, but I do not think Jeff Newman's right hand position lends itself to using the ring finger for picking.

I think the one answer that we could probably all agree on is: all the above. It would be best, if your skills and time allow, to be proficient at both palm and pick blocking foremost. As a pickblocker, I sometimes find Buddy E's moves difficult to play because of the blocking. Also many Lloyd G. licks as I can perform only the most rudimentary palm-blocking. Likewise, if you can use thumb and three fingers for picking, there is nothing that requires that all the time - you can easily skip using the ring finger if a song didn't need it. But if you can only use two fingers for picking, you are stuck when you run into something that kind of demands that extra finger.

Good luck with it, Bill!