Major positions: am I missing anything?

[Bill McCloskey]

In mapping out my major triad positions on E9th we have:

Pedals up
2 frets above pedals up (pedals down)
3 frets above pedals Up (AF)
5 frets above ( E and E+RL)
7 frets up (pedals down)
And then NOTHING for the next 4 frets when we circle back to Pedals Up position again.

Am I missing anything? Any major triads I'm missing in the 4 fret gap?

[Lee Gauthier]

Are you starting from IV open position?

Starting from I open I'd have:

Code: Select all

Open      - No pedals
Open      - AB
2nd fret  - AB
3rd fret  - AF
5th fret  - No pedals
7th fret  - No pedals
7th fret  - AB
8th fret  - AF
10th fret - AF
12th fret - No pedals

[Bill McCloskey]

I'm a bit confused
open AB? if we are talking about a E chord, I only have the root on 4 and 8
7th fret no pedals? I only have the 5th on 4 and 8
8th AF I have the root and 5th but no 3rd
same with 10th fret AF

[John Hyland]

Lee is showing you the i iv v chord positions. I’m not understanding what chords you are asking for

[Pat Chong]

Hi Bill,
What you are saying ties in with what Lee is saying, except Lee is talking about "home pedals".
"Open" refers to no bar, which you already know. That would be E major, right? Ok, then 5 frets higher would be A, and 7 frets would be B.

Lee added about "open AB", which would put you in the key of A. 5 frets higher would be D, and 7 frets would be E.
He said the same about the A-F combo (0, +5 frets and +7 frets), which, if it was at the 0 fret, would put you in the key of C#, with F# & G# (5th and 7th frets).

You added E+RL, which (using that as your "home pedals") at open, would put you in the key of B with E and F# (5th and 7th frets).

Adding more "home pedal" positions opens up playing in the low or high frets.

Hope that helps.......Pat

[Bill McCloskey]

Ah...

No, I'm talking about the same chord and the difference positions up the neck

G maj 3rd fret: Pedals up
G maj 5th Fret AB pedals
G maj 6th fret AF pedal
G maj 8 th fret: E's lowered and E's lowered with RKL
G maj 10th fret AB pedals
I was wondering if I was missing any other spots on frets 1, 2, 11, or 12.

[Doug Taylor]

Bill can I ask how you are getting a G maj 5th Fret AB pedals? I only see D there, would love to understand a new to me place to play a G!

[Bill McCloskey]

That is a GREAT position because it gives you Gmaj7 chord.
AB pedals down
Strings 9, 7, 6, 5: G, B, D F#
F# also on the 10 string

[Doug Taylor]

Interesting, I need to spend some time exploring I guess.

Thank you

[Bill McCloskey]

Travis toy hangs out on the 9th string Major 7th chord a lot. You'll hear it in his playing

[Lee Gauthier]

Ah, I misunderstood the question.

I haven't found any good positions with a root, but fret 12 in G could work as a G Maj6 (no pedals - strings 10, 9, 8, 5, 4) or a G Maj7 (no pedals - strings 10, 9, 7, 5, 1). If you have a half step drop on string 2 that would also work in both those chords. B pedal adds a 9.

I've been using that position with the B pedal recently, but I'd still naturally think of it as Bm7 or Dmaj6 rather than G.

[Lee Gauthier]

Bill, interesting. It was actually an off-hand comment about Travis Toy that inspired me to explore this 12 fret b pedal position.

[Brint Hannay]

Ah...

No, I'm talking about the same chord and the difference positions up the neck

G maj 3rd fret: Pedals up
G maj 5th Fret AB pedals
G maj 6th fret AF pedal
G maj 8 th fret: E's lowered and E's lowered with RKL
G maj 10th fret AB pedals
I was wondering if I was missing any other spots on frets 1, 2, 11, or 12.

Not sure if you mean using the 7th and 1st strings as the fifth at the 8th fret ("E's lowered and E's lowered" seems redundant), but for me lowering the 6th string a whole step along with the E lowers at that fret is a super valuable position. Emmons used it a lot.

[Bill McCloskey]

Brint, it is two different voicings:

E's lowered you get B and D on the top two strings
E's lowered with RKL (6th string lowered, on mine, not 7th string raise) you get a nice drone like G on 10, 8,7,6,5: G B D D G. Putting both knees together and releasing gets you a V-1 change on one fret. I use it all the time on third fret when I want to go from G to D and stay on the 3rd fret.

[Donny Hinson]

Bill, other positions open up if you have other pedals, like the 1/2 tone lower on 5 & 10 (with or without the F lever).

This chart may help:
http://www.cryinsteel.com/assets/E9-cho ... -11x17.pdf

[Bill McCloskey]

Ah.. GBD on 10,9,8 on the 9th fret with B's lowered and F lever? What do you get with just B's lowered? I just see two note voicings.

[Brint Hannay]

Hi Bill,
Not trying to nitpick. It just wasn't clear as written what RKL is. (I have the 6th string whole-step lower on LKR (E lowers on RKL)) . I figured your RKL was likely the 6th string lower, but I thought some readers might not.

[Lee Gauthier]

Ah, I missed the B to Bb + F lever position, I actually use that quite a bit. Bill for G that'd be at fret 1 or 13.

If you release the F lever you get a G7.

[Bill McCloskey]

Yeah, Should have been clearer: 6th string lower. 1st and 2nd string raise.
The only reason I just learned this voicing was I was talking to Dave Graf about having my RKL changed from 6th string lower to 7th string raise, and he talked me out of it, showing me this change. I've been addicted to it since.

[Tucker Jackson]

This thread's been on a little journey.

No, Bill. I don't think you're missing anything: there are no more obvious E-major triads between fret 7AB and fret 12 open.

But the discussion did highlight a couple of positions that some players miss. For new players out there, here's two new positions to learn for major chords after getting the more common positions down (Open, A+B, A+F).

Open D - It's based off of the D-String 9. Full major chord is strings 9-7-6B
By itself, that isn't very useful since there are better options for a given major chord 1 and 2 frets away where you can stay on the most-used strings. If you add the 5th string, it's a D6. But again, for me, there are more convenient ways to get a 6th chord that, unlike this, stay on the most-used strings and have good 'sliding around' possibilities moving to and from other chords.

So... the real power of the Open D position is in extending it to a DMaj7. Depending on how you tune your 9th and 7th string, a Dmaj7 can potentially be the most beautiful single chord on the instrument. You can get it if you add string 5A to the basic grip (so now, it's AB). Slowly pedal into it with the A-Pedal for extra credit.
Then continue arpeggiating on up, hitting string 4 (to make it a Maj7-9), then string 1. Try to get 6 strings all ringing at once. Whoa! For me, this position is a one-trick pony. But laid down in the right moment, it's a helluva pony.

Usage: This is a great position for when you are sitting on the 1 chord in pedals-down position... and want to go to a 4 chord without moving the bar. Especially useful in a very quiet, singer songwriter duet situation where you want to leave some higher strings ringing when you go to the new chord... and don't want have to move the bar. You leave AB down, just drop your thumb to the 9th string and the new grip (blocking string 8 if it's ringing). Even if the guitar plays the straight 4 chord, on a ballad you can play it as a maj7... by adding 5A to add a little sad-machine. To get full effect, it's at least a 4-note chord, so if you don't have 4 picks, you'll need to arpeggiate up to the higher strings. Or maybe leave out the 9th string root note. It even works if you just play that 'partial' chord on two strings: 6B and 5A. In any event, consider using a slow A-pedal bend for added effect. And consider adding strings 4 and 1 on top.

***

Open B - it's based off of String 10 (or 5, same note). The basic triad is on strings 10-8 Lowered-7
In terms of fret position, think of it as "2 frets back from pedals-down" version of a given chord. So, if you have a B chord at Fret 2 with AB... two frets back is the Open B position (at the nut). You just have to lower your E-strings.

The power is not so much in the vanilla triad, but in the notes you can add to it. There are a LOT of options (it can be B-major or minor, Sus, 6th, 7th or 9th). So, it's the opposite of a one-trick pony position.
This is technically the richest fret-position on the entire tuning:

* If you add the 6th string to the basic triad, it's an excellent position for getting a big B6. Great for swing.

* If you add string 6B, it's the very common 7th chord position (it's really based off of this 'Open B' type position, though many don't realize it when they are playing higher grips, like, say, 6-5-4 or whatever).

* If you add 6B and 5A, it becomes a 9th chord. Pedaling on and off of A-pedal is a cool move. Try it out to fancy up a 7th chord.

* If you play the basic triad and release the E-lower, it becomes a Bsus. Cool song ending, especially on a ballad where you can really cut through with the lower strings: start with the Sus (no lever), then kick in the E-lower lever to resolve to the major chord on the last note.

* Maybe not as useful... If you change the grip of the basic triad to 10-9-7, it's a minor chord. Then you can add 6B option to get min6th.

Much of this still makes sense if you play it on higher grips using the most-commonly used strings. Just have to leave the E-strings lowered.

[J D Sauser]

In mapping out my major triad positions on E9th we have:

Pedals up
2 frets above pedals up (pedals down)
3 frets above pedals Up (AF)
5 frets above ( E and E+RL)
7 frets up (pedals down)
And then NOTHING for the next 4 frets when we circle back to Pedals Up position again.

Am I missing anything? Any major triads I'm missing in the 4 fret gap?

You might have some partial positions missing... I don't have an E9th in front of me.
But you have ONE thing so RIGHT and nobody seems to take notice:

You DON'T go by Fret-NUMBERS but by distance relationships.
PF reminds us often in his educational videos that BE was an "intervallic" player... most of the greats are... meaning, they "see" a "Map"... Maurice taught that relentlessly, it was how he "saw" everything. So, you are on the right track.

As for major positions, maybe less in "typical" E9th playing than in Jazz/Swing/Bebop, keep in mind that every Major position, no matter if it has a 6th or a M7th, will create a relative minor position 3 frets up. Minors positions a GREAT for playing Blues (which not just Jazz but Country derives a good portion of it's language from) as the minor 3rd can be played and bent/slurred up to the M3rd much easier than grabbing it from a fret below off a Major position.

Evidently, you want to "see" your "map" so well that you can not only play in each position individually, but also up and down string group "working your self up and down but also diagonally (all 4 ways: diagonally up for-and also-backward, and the same down.

The next thing is to see the chord positions a 4th up left and right (and often right on the same fret) of any of your positions.

... J-D.