C6 Single Neck?

John Rickard · Post by **John Rickard** » 4 Apr 2002 1:06 am

If you were to take a single neck steel that was originally set up for E9 (it has 3 pedals & 4 knees) and set it up for C6 (standard tuning), what changes (pulls) would you use on the pedals and knees you had to work with. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John

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Slide It On Over

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 4 Apr 2002 6:31 am

I think I'd go for something like this:

I've always had what is usually P6 on a lever and it works well for me. (that's the LKR)

You lose the A's to B (usually on P4) -- many people have removed that change anyway. The three pedals are what's usually on P5 (6 is on a lever), P7, and P8. The standard C to B lever is RKL. You have two 'optional levers. I'd go with A to Bb (LKL) and either C to C# (shown on RKR) or A to Ab on the 4th string.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 04 April 2002 at 07:22 AM.]

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 4 Apr 2002 7:39 am

I like it.[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 04 April 2002 at 07:40 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 4 Apr 2002 8:02 am

What I DON'T like about it is that you can't raise the A to Bb out of the F9 open position (LKL + LKR).

I think I would consider swapping LKR and RKR -- more useful combinations.

Even w/3 and 4, there's a lot there.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 4 Apr 2002 8:11 am

I think Larry's got a good basic setup also, but the problem is that with what is normally P.6, I also use A-Bb, C-B, and C-C# in combination. So there's the conflict about one knee going in both directions regardless of what the knee levers do.

OTOH, I like the idea of P.5 and P.7 being adjacent. So, I would choose the least frequently used (for me) combination, and move the P.6 change to RKR, and move C-C# to LKR.

Just MHO, your mileage may vary.

OOOOOPS!! I just went back and read that Larry had the exact same idea. As Emily Litella would say, "...never mind!"

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 04 April 2002 at 08:13 AM.]

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 4 Apr 2002 8:12 am

If you swap the two knee levers, then you have pedal 6, which is used constantly (with pedal 5) on the volume pedal. I don't like that. It would be like putting E9 pedal A on a knee lever over the volume pedal. Why not put pedal 8 (Boo-wah) on LKR instead? 5,6,7 would stay on the floor.[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 04 April 2002 at 08:12 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 4 Apr 2002 8:15 am

Larry, I like your LKR (pulling the E strings) and I have that on a knee lever too

I also like your LKL raising the A string. But I find that I like to combine that pull with LKR, so I put it on the other (right) knee. Also I find it very useful to pull it all the way up to B, with a half stop at Bb.

With this change I don't need your pedal 2 at all. So you could put your pedal 1 and 3 next to each other, and put some other nutty pull on the 1st or 3rd pedal.

See http://b0b.com/tunings/ebovine.html

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 4 Apr 2002 10:03 am

Hey, I'd like to get into this. Can there be
more than one way to do it? I have a similar
set-up to the one I'm going to describe I've used since 1973 and hopefully someone will volunteer to chart it. Some Seymours can't spell & some can't chart a tuning on b0b's great site. I have a keyless Excel S10 w/3P & 4K. D on top. P1 +2 & 6, P2 -5 +9 & ++10,
& P3 +2 & -6. (P2 & 3 are the normal P5 & P6)
LKL +4, LKV -4, LKR +3 & 7, RKL ++3 & ++4 (usual P7) RKR -3. How about it chart folks
can you chart that for this old guy that never learned how. (It's been explained many times on here! I know) The biggest drawback
I've found with this set-up is the stiffness
of RKL with the 2 whole tone raises. My Zum
D10 does it as does the Excel S10. [This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 04 April 2002 at 12:07 PM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 4 Apr 2002 11:51 am

Hi Doug, you have a very good 10 C6 setup and you know how to play it. Very good chord style playing on those tunes you sent to me.
Larry's is just real good. but thanks for steelers , we are all a little different.

I believe you meant 2nd string raise on P3.
Here is your chart Doug, it almost what I would use.

<pre>
LL LV LR 1. 2. 3. RL RR
1.D
2.E F F
3.C C# D B
4.A Bb G# B
5.G F#
6.E F Eb
7.C C#
8.A
9.F F#
10C D
</pre>
I like the Maj7th on the RKL and keep P2 &3 together(usual 5 & 6). I also like the C to C#'s on a knee, usually LL but no matter. I see when you play that LRK with the RRK you get the effect of the old boowa brings the top note back to C.That pedal is a lot more useful than just boowa. I don't want to get into details now. All in all a good setup, just keep the left foot on P2 & P3 then use the knee levers, all kinds of stuff.
I have been thinking of simplifying with my "lean and Mean" C6 tuning (only in E6)on a S10....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 04 April 2002 at 11:55 AM.]

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 4 Apr 2002 12:05 pm

Thanks, Al! That's right P2 raises 2 & lowers 6. Thanks for charting it out. I believe Jerry Gleason & Johnny Cox use the
maj7th on the RKL and also I'm pretty sure Bob Maickel told me once that he had used the
P6 from the std C6th on the LKR as Larry had
on his chart above. For my own amusement I play a lot of old standards on C6th along with Band in a Box on my computer, but when playing the S10 I often wish I had the other neck! There's lots of great stuff on both tunings!!![This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 04 April 2002 at 12:16 PM.]

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 4 Apr 2002 12:18 pm

The idea of having seperate single neck guitars for E9 and C6 always sounded good to me. (as long as you have someone to carry them).

Did Paul Franklin do this on the Dire Straits tour?
This photo on his site looks like it: http://www.paul-franklin.com/photos5a.htm

John Rickard · Post by **John Rickard** » 4 Apr 2002 4:56 pm

Thanks for the replys (so far), keep 'em comin'! This is going to be fun.
Thanks,
JR

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Slide It On Over

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 4 Apr 2002 8:09 pm

i like this. i am trying to find the minimal setup possible(read #strings and pedals)to be able to play the things i like to hear.
this forces me to understand the horizontal aspect of voicing on different string gauges as well as minimizing vertical movement for slides. an optimization problem with objective constraints. i prefer sparse suggestions of chords("shell" voicings containing mostly the 3rd and the 7th being a tritone from the root)vs raking
[This message was edited by ebb on 04 April 2002 at 08:10 PM.]

Jay Jessup · Post by **Jay Jessup** » 5 Apr 2002 8:06 am

Joey,
Paul had his Ped-A-Bro as well as his D-10 on that Dire Straights tour.
On my C6 S-10 I put pedals 5,7 and 8 on the floor and the right knee's do the 7'ths, RL M7 on the third and RR b7 on the fourth.
LL is the 6'th pedal and LR is the reverse (high E to -Eb and low E to +F). I also have both the first and 10'th string tuned to D, the 10th being pitched between the C and E strings. This keeps you from having to come up with more bellcranks and and pullrods to do the low C string moves if you just want to do a quickie change over on a simple S-10.