Emmons p/p vs all pull?

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 15 Feb 2002 9:29 pm

On my 66 D-10, I've had to tighten a rod collar once in awhile when the ALLEN SCREW losens. As much as I gig with it, I guess that's not to bad. Nick

My 66' Push-Pulls
http://personal.bellsouth.net/bna/a/m/am1070/page10.html

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » 16 Feb 2002 9:31 pm

What I want to know is WHY the P/P has such great tone! Isn't it just a different changer design? What would that have to do with tone?

Thanks

Geoff Cole · Post by **Geoff Cole** » 17 Feb 2002 5:18 am

Steve, they don't, Buddy sounds just as good on a barbed wire fence.

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 17 Feb 2002 6:21 am

Who cares why? Some things cannot be explained, only experienced. When I played my old guitar next to three other PP's I just knew.

Buddy Emmons · Post by **Buddy Emmons** » 17 Feb 2002 8:10 am

There are several missing ingredients in the Legrande guitars that could account for the sound difference, one, being the changer. The mechanism was mounted on the cabinet and pulled firmly against the end grain, which seemed to provide a more resonant vibration throughout the cabinet.

As the years rolled by, between cost cutting and trying to make players happy, Ron Lashley made what he thought were subtle changes for the good. Each addition took away from the original design until the sound eventually became what I call a "ball park" replica. Don't get me wrong; to have a ballpark sound of the original is still saying a lot. I have two Legrande lll models, one of which I used on Gene Watson's last album. Just for the record, I used a Carter D-10 on Gene's Gospel album and for all practical purposes, I can't tell a dime's worth of difference, but what do I know?

The P/P was discontinued mostly because of the increasing popularity of the all-pull mechanism. I would have to say economics had a little something to do with it as the stamped parts use for the A/P bell cranks cost less than those required for the P/P mechanism.

In a few days, Ernie will have a story I wrote for the Emmons.com site that covers the origin of the Emmons push/pull guitar, the reasons that led to the features in the design, and how close it came to being a Sho~Bud.
[This message was edited by Buddy Emmons on 17 February 2002 at 11:52 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Feb 2002 8:34 am

Apparently, Emmons is having trouble producing their present (all-pull) guitar. I'm sure they probably wouldn't want to take on the additional manufacturing (set-up) time to make yet another guitar. Also, at one time, most of the stuff heard on records was Emmons guitars, now it's Franklins and Zums. Like music, instruments change, and when you don't change with the times, you get left behind. (At least that's what everyone tells me.)

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Feb 2002 8:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I can't tell a dime's worth of difference, but what do I know?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you don't NOBODY does.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 17 Feb 2002 10:43 am

I agree with you Larry Bell. I had three PP Emmons and two of them had the greatest tone of any of the dozen all pull guitars I played.
However I had a couple of Carters and they come closer to the PP than any I have played...so time marches on.....al

Buddy Emmons · Post by **Buddy Emmons** » 17 Feb 2002 10:59 am

Donny, I don't remember ever telling you that.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 17 Feb 2002 11:32 am

Like music, instruments change, and when you don't change with the times, you get left behind.

The story of my recent life. I just got a cell phone so I could sit at my desk and call my home phone to get reminded what a ringing telephone sounds like. The ringing helped me find it in the mountain of dust and cobwebs covering the receiver.

Professionally around here, I feel like I'm in the "whatever happened to ol' Herb?" stage.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 17 February 2002 at 11:34 AM.]

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 17 Feb 2002 12:38 pm

I know we've been discussing tone quality of the Emmons push-pulls, but what about their feel & action. Personally, I really like the feel of my push-pull guitars. If set-up right they can be made to play as smooth as all-pulls. Mike Cass has worked on both of mine and they play great. I do own a LeGrande III so I know how an all-pull feels. I've heard some players like Bobby Boman comment on P/P action compared to all-pull.
A few players have said they can speed pick better with an all pull. Does this make a difference in your opinion.
Nick

Buddy Emmons · Post by **Buddy Emmons** » 17 Feb 2002 1:06 pm

Nah... you either have it or you don't.

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 17 Feb 2002 1:15 pm

Earl Foote · Post by **Earl Foote** » 17 Feb 2002 1:52 pm

Like music, instruments change, and when you don't change with the times, you get left behind.

If 'yall need me, I'll be back here in the caboose. And send me those vintage Strats, Teles, Deluxe Reverbs, Push-pulls, etc.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 17 Feb 2002 2:11 pm

There's still a lotta guys who,
although they play their newer steels
when on stage, when they're called for
a session they play an old vintage
steel. Strange why dey do dat!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 17 Feb 2002 3:53 pm

T. Basile Pennyryle III[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 17 February 2002 at 11:35 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 17 Feb 2002 4:03 pm

This should be intresting!!!!

Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 17 February 2002 at 11:36 PM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 17 February 2002 at 11:37 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 17 Feb 2002 4:05 pm

This will be great![This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 17 February 2002 at 11:38 PM.]

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 17 Feb 2002 4:51 pm

Sleazmour, I think you're constipated and if you compile a list of anything, it will end up as constipated as you! Push/pulls are magical, they have a magical sound but when it's all boiled down, who is impressed with the sound? The one playing it! If you polled the audience as to what a push/pull was, 90% would say it was an oriental sex act!

By the way, the definition of constipated is:
one being full of sh!t
Nice attempt at leg humping though and NO, my push/pull is not for sale. You don't have enough money to buy it OR my CARTER!

[This message was edited by Mike Weirauch on 17 February 2002 at 04:53 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Feb 2002 6:00 pm

Herb, I don't remember who said this, but it's a "goodern" anyway...

There are so many labor saving devices nowadays, you have to work all your life just to pay for 'em.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 18 Feb 2002 10:57 am

Moved from 'Steel Players' to 'Pedal Steel'.

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